Unhandled Perception
From the mind of a developer.

Wednesday, January 11, 2006

ThinkAll.com = Think Again

ThinkAll.com may not be what you are expecting. Although the CD's are sent to you free (pay shipping only) your CD's must be sent back to them within 10 days or your credit card will automatically be charged. Not only that you are signing up for a membership where they automatically send you CD's and charge your credit card if not returned after a very short evaluation period.

So, watch out for this company or you may find unexpected charges on your credit card and canceling the account may be difficult (so users have told me)

From their Terms of Service (which people rarely read):
"7. Membership and Billing. THINK ALL provides numerous products, services, and software in connection with its business. With respect to software provided hereunder, there is a non-refundable shipping and handling fee for the initial complete four (4) CD software set. You may keep any two (2) CD’s free of charge. The other two (2) CD’s are yours to review during a ten (10) day trial period. If for any reason you decide the complete set is not for you, simply visit us at www.thinkall.com/freeCD.html before your ten (10) day free trial expires. You will need to follow the instructions at such web link to indicate your intention to return two (2) of the CD’s, and you will not be charged for the complete 4-CD set. If you elect to keep all four (4) CD’s or you otherwise fail to comply with the foregoing instructions, you will be billed the discounted price of $19.95 (which is up to 80% off the store price) for each of the other two (2) CD’s. Every four (4) to five (5) weeks, you will receive four (4) new THINK ALL software CD’s based on your preferences with the same ten (10) day trial terms as your first shipment described above. You may discontinue shipments any time by visiting our web site at https://www.thinkall.com/freeCD.html, for more information and filling out the appropriate cancellation information therein contained.

10. Authorization. Unless and until this agreement is cancelled in accordance with the terms hereof, you authorize the company to charge your credit card to pay for any charges previously agreed upon as described in Section 7. You hereby further authorize the company to charge your credit card for any and all products provided by the site. You are only allowed to have one membership per website at a time."

Updated - I will be posting links to software alternatives to what they are selling:

posted by Veign at 9:22 PM

232 Comments:

  • Thanks for the warning. I was looking at their website and the too-good-to-be-true offer is so attractive. But not to put upfront that this is a subscription is not far from being dishonest, even if the prices are still attractive.

    Plus to say that the offer is only for today is another deception.
    And then, not being able to know exactly how to cancel is one more problem. I think I'll pass this offer for now. Thanks again.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:59 PM EST  

  • Thanks Chris,

    Wish I had read this before I went ahead and ordered. THe website to cancel does not seem to exist and so I have mailed the 4 discs back to them, by registered mail. If it comes down to the wire I will change my credit card.
    Pat Doyle

    By Anonymous Pat, at 7:16 PM EST  

  • This is the reason I do extensive searches on the too-good-to-be-true deals.

    Goog luck and post back here if it doesn't work out - I will happily post a follow-up with your story (you can email me)...

    By Blogger Veign, at 7:38 PM EST  

  • Thanks for the warning, it is just too-good-to-be-true.
    Think Again, Thanks again!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:11 AM EST  

  • I just got this "deal" and I definitely want to return 2 items..but when I type in the web address I only get your page instead..how do I contact this outfit? I have 8 more days..fredcullens@yahoo.com

    By Anonymous fredcullens@yahoo.com, at 3:04 AM EST  

  • I have no idea since I am no way connected to the ThinkAll company.

    Typing there URL in does go directly to their website..

    All I can say is follow the instructions carefully so you have a better chance of not getting charged.

    By Blogger Veign, at 11:00 AM EST  

  • Thanks for the warning, alas, I got it too late. Just discovered the charge on my statement. Went to your link and called the customer service number: 1-800-462-8144 Got a real person atleast. Cancelled my "surprise" membership and explained in no uncertain terms how shady I thought their tactics were. Also, informed them that they are in the blogsphere and it isn't pretty.

    My case is especially annoying because I got the Gimp software I could have gotten for Free by downloading!
    But at the end of the day, it was still way cheaper than buying Photoshop!

    By Anonymous Alicia St. Rose-Pastel Artist, at 8:48 PM EST  

  • Glad people are getting use out of this post and realizing what they had actually signed up for...

    If anyone wants help in locating free versions of some of the software they offer post a comment here and I will generate a post of free alternatives or download sites for the software.

    By Blogger Veign, at 9:58 PM EST  

  • Think Free Problem you said
    Writely
    Zoho Writer
    GOffice
    Num Sum Just spread sheets

    These may help and would put url's in but have to be some where in five.later. They are just one of many that are hard to cancel and in all categories.

    By Blogger Gary McCurry, at 8:48 AM EST  

  • ThinkAll is definitely underhanded. I just sent them a letter outlining my anger with their FREE software. I have had shipping and handling charges reversed on my credit card for the second set of CD's that they sent me. I too will try to call them and get my name off their list. I am very angry with them and also told them that their name is getting bad press in the Blogsphere. I wish that I had looked for them here before doing my original order.

    By Blogger rick, at 10:29 AM EST  

  • I also fell victim to the sneaky way this firm set a trap for us. The terms of use are made extra hard to read by putting them in a window to small to see the complete line so you have to use the sliderbar all the time to go through this lengthy contract. By the time you think it is a standard bla- bla contract they throw in the line you are not supposed to read.
    If you contact them you get incredily friendly answers and wishes that you may enjoy their software .
    I am afraid I fell for it and have to pay the $47.09 over the $5.92 I payed already for some very mediocre software I will never use. To say the least they are very dishonourable

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:37 PM EST  

  • I found your site by typing thinkall into the Google search. Thanks for your good work. I too was "taken." And I really know not to trust "too good to be true" sites. But as you say, they don't make their terms of service plain or clear. Well, they will reap what they are sowing. Is there anyone monitoring these practices so we can put a stop to them?

    By Blogger ElizaK, at 11:51 AM EST  

  • The problem I see is they are not doing anything illegal just very underhanded. For this reason I don't think they can be shut down and the main reason to spread the word about what you are actually signing up for.

    By Blogger Veign, at 11:55 AM EST  

  • I'm usually pretty careful, but I got bit on this one. The price and terms are also not in the invoice or confirmation email, nor do they tell you that you have to get a pre-authorization number from the website to return the software, or they can continue your subscription until you comply precisely. They told me they have an iron-clad no-money-back policy based on the Terms of Use (sucker!). However, they violate their own Privacy Policy: I'm getting tons of offensive porn spam since signing up with them, and this is the only place I've ever used this email. Definitely shady and dishonest. They agreed by phone to issue me a full refund of all charges: but their subsequent email indicated it was only the shipping, and they then charged me an additional shipping. GRRRRR!!!! Know any other places I can blacken their name?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:11 PM EST  

  • This is something that needs to be spread around. Anyone with a Blog should link to this story and help protect someone else.

    Hopefully, this will get more exposure and the links to software will help people get the software they want for free.

    If you can't download the software because of bandwidth issues then use a download site like Snap Files and fill a CD with software of your choice - use the ThinkAll guides I have been publishing to get some ideas for software.

    By Blogger Veign, at 3:20 PM EST  

  • Well, my dad got suckered by these guys and I found your article too late. Also it took 14 days to get here so I suppose he will be beat on the 10 day trial. As with others, the irony being that he wanted "open office" which is available for free download.
    The address for the hidden "unsubscribe" page is as follows:
    https://www.thinkall.com/cancelsubscription.php
    There is no way to get there from within the thinkall website!
    On the upside: We are in Canada and the customs form they filled out claims the package is "commercial sample CD, value $0.00"
    Filling out such forms incorrectly can be a crime. I will be contacting the appropriate authorities.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:20 PM EST  

  • Thanx for posting the Cancel Subscription link.

    Also, keep me informed about what happens with the customs issue (feel free to email me and I can create a post about it)...

    By Blogger Veign, at 10:48 PM EST  

  • Followup (call me GRRRRR). A customer service rep agreed by phone to give me a "full refund". This is what the confirmation email said: "We apologize for any inconvenience. We have processed a refund back to your account on 02/13/2006 for $4.95." They did indeed access my bank account on 2/13... with an additional charge of $4.95. 24 hours later, that was the only activity from them. Obviously, they've redefined the word "refund". Isn't that openly fraudulent?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:16 PM EST  

  • You may want to submit something to the state of their LLC with the Secretary of State of Better Business Bureu.

    After looking at their security certificate they claim to be:

    Think All Publishing LLC from Plano, TX

    I tried to get more detailed information from the TX Secretary of State but they want a fee to access the information. In case anyone wants to persue this here is the website of the Secretary of State.

    Good luck and let me know what happens.

    By Blogger Veign, at 3:44 PM EST  

  • They are slick! But go to info@thinkall.com and tell them you want to cancel. They sent me a link and canceled the bullshit!!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:38 AM EST  

  • First, thanks to all those who participated in this conversation on 'thinkall'~
    I, too, was taken in by the subterfuge. When I called the 800 number, Amanda explained patiently that I should have understood that these products were not free-with-shipping;
    She reassured me that, when I receive the products, I should call the 800 number for a return authorization number, return the products, and expext no further hassles from the company. We'll see. My bank (bankofamerica) reassured me that they could block any further charges from 'Thinkall' after the 4.95 charge posts tomorrow. Thanks again for the alert, and lesson learned: that all those little tags on the website, the testimonials and the plain language of a website can be a smokescreen for less than honest transactions.
    jeroboambramblejam

    By Anonymous jeroboambramblejam, at 8:52 PM EST  

  • When I get mad, I get information. J ThinkAll hides behind informed consent (and the “informed” part is your problem), but check out the FTC brochure; on page 2, under “It’s The Law”, the company must “clearly and prominently disclose the material terms of the offer” (including all those little surprises we’ve seen), prior to consent. (Did you see anything clear and prominent? Me either.) Violations / consumer complaints can be reported at https://rn.ftc.gov/...Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

    ThinkAll is under the jurisdiction of the State of Texas, whose Deceptive Trade Practices statue is found at http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/....htm. Look at sections 17.12 (the fake “today only” statement), 17.45 (5), and 17.46. Complaints can be reported to the Texas Attorney General at http://www.oag.state.tx.us/.... If the AG deems their practices deceptive, Section 17.42 specifically nullifies the sacred Terms of Use consent “waiver”.

    No one has yet made a complaint to the Texas Better Business Bureau. They don’t have any magic bullets and can’t force a refund, but a record of complaints may protect future consumers, and help build any other case against them. Check out ThinkAll’s profile at http://dallas.bbb.org/...; complaints can be made at http://www.bbbonline.org/.../complaint.asp.

    I’m going to make my complaints by snail mail, so I can include a longer description of what happened, with copies of screen shots of the deceptive “today only” language and hard-to-find terms, the deceptive invoices and emails, etc., even the disks. (After the amount of spam I’ve picked up from them, and their Privacy Policy statements about information collection, I’m not even sure I dare load it onto my computer; it may be loaded with spyware.) If nothing else, I aim to cause some minor indigestion for my non-refundable $90…
    Helen (aka GRRRRR)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:54 PM EST  

  • I fixed the above comment to make all links clickable. That much easier to goto the sites.

    Thanx for all the work in finding the sites!

    By Blogger Veign, at 5:56 PM EST  

  • Thanks Chris
    you saved me a packet by reading all the comments Ihave returned the C/DS to ThinkAll.com and cancelled any further orders
    Many Thanks again

    John UNITED KINGDOM

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:46 AM EST  

  • The subscription cancelation can be reached at the following url...http://thinkall.com/cancelsubscription.php
    I hope this helps.

    Pat
    Ontario, Canada

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:10 PM EST  

  • Thanks so much for this info! I just opened my mail, found the CDs and also the message that I was a member... I, like everyone else, could not pull the website, but instead got this link. Thanks to the person who posted the customer service number. I immediately called and cancelled it and they will be in the mail tomorrow. I think I will call my credit card company just in case and let them now not to authorize any charges to the company should they attempt any more shady business!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:31 PM EST  

  • Like many others I was taken in. Only by typing a search on thinkall did I get your site and the real info. I had no idea it was a subscription until I opened the mail this morning.

    How can they not specify that it is a subscription base clearly (not in the fine print)??? I am in Aus and I am sure that they have to do that here. I nkow they do with Doubleday books and cds.

    Thanks again.
    Tam
    Australia

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:30 PM EST  

  • It is actually illegal under US federal law for ThinkAll to conceal the subscription nature of their offer in the fine print. The FTC (US Federal Trade Commission) participates in an international partnership that allows consumers from Canada, Australia, and I think other nations, to report this kind of deceptive internet practices by businesses based in other nations. It's found at http://www.consumer.gov/sentinel/index.html, if anyone would like to make a complaint or find additional information about international internet transaction fraud.
    Helen

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:00 PM EST  

  • Thanks for the warning. I almost signed up and then thought, I had better check this out first. Found your blog on google and was really glad that I changed my mind.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:16 AM EST  

  • The warning came a little to late,but thanks to the person for the phone number 1-800-462-8144. I called got a real person, told them to cancel my account. The person said she was. Gave me the information and address so I could send the CD back. Wasn't nice to the person on the phone.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:32 PM EST  

  • It is very easy to cancel your account all you have to do is call and customer service will cancel, also though you may not read the terms of use (which by the way are not hidden they are are at the bottom of the screeen) in order to place your order you have to check that you have read and aggreed to them.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:41 PM EST  

  • There is nothing to say except the whole thing is extremely deceptive. Just because something is hidden deep within a long Terms of Service doesn't mean the information is properly disclosed.

    What Thinkall.com is doing is wrong, Period!

    By Blogger Veign, at 8:49 PM EST  

  • Its possible that the terms of use may be hard to find as well as to read if have trouble reading but from the home page as well as every othe page you get directed to the terms of use link is CLEARLY marked at the bottom of the page.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:48 PM EST  

  • Also there are only 13 tems of use that is not a long form to read

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:50 PM EST  

  • Who are you kidding?

    TOS's located at the bottom of the page are rarely read, by anyone. Thinkall.com knows this and relies on this to rip people off.

    If they are doing nothing wrong then the page itself would contain information like "Sign up for our membership" or "Purchasing ours cds enrolls you in our membership". But they don't. Why? Because if you knew before hand you are signing up for a membership you would probably not purchase a CD. This way they can rip you off for additional money before you realize what the real story is.

    About the length: 13 items spanning 5 printed pages and containing almost 2,400 words is not long?. Sure, I believe that. And what happends when English is not your native language? Come on.

    Thank You for posting comments as this just provides additional reading for those who want to find out how much a rip off ThinkAll is.

    By Blogger Veign, at 10:14 PM EST  

  • THANK YOU!
    I almost fell for it. However I always check wether the page has a public adress in contactinfo before I giove cardinfo away...and this one didn't...so I googled! The missing terms of conditions link was also a trigger when I was about to pay!

    You just saved another one!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:05 AM EST  

  • If you wish to end your relationship with these crooks I reccomend asking your credit card company to cancel your card and send you one with a new number. That way they cannot charge anything more to your card.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:54 PM EST  

  • Its a shame that a company forces you to go this route...

    By Blogger Veign, at 5:44 PM EST  

  • Unfortunately I got screwed too late on this site. I usually get check on this but I got anxious this time. When I noticed the charge on my account I asked what that was. They told me that I was charged for the other two. Interestingly enough I NEVER RECEIVED THE OTHER TWO DISCS. These guys are crooks. On top of that when I questioned the customer service rep about it she got belligerant on the phone telling me I should have read the terms of service, which I don't remember even having an opportunity to look at! They're completely aware of what they're doing. They acted like they did nothing wrong too. DON'T EVER USE these guys, terrible. I've put a report into the BBB.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:10 AM EST  

  • Hi there, I also fell for their trick and didn't realise it until I saw the charge on my bank statement. I guess that they know that it takes several days to get from Texas to Australia and then through customs etc, so the ten days is up before you get the package.I rang them and was told about the fine print which at first I couln't find. Then I was told that I agreed to the extra charges etc. I said the items were promoted as free and no mention of some ongoing membership site where they send you discs every month until you cancell. She kept saying how sorry she was that I was unhappy.But that it was good that I could now keep the discs. I repeated that I wanted a refund.Still no luck in that matter as yet. BE WARNED.
    Also I think that a few of the anonymous blog entries are actualyy from their own company.

    By Anonymous barrowboy, at 7:48 AM EST  

  • Ouch.
    I nearly got suckered in, primarily by the competent colour scheme & site design! ( I mean if it looks corporate enough & claims to operate a privacy policy registered with the 'big guns', 'Verisign' & 'TRUSTe', & flashes up authentic sounding testimonials every second...then it *must* be what it says it is right?)

    Once it looked to be more than a simple marketing exercise of offering one disc for your perusal so you could sample their efficient shipping, I began to doubt what seemed so straight forward.
    1. Why was I being offered 3 more products, which seemed to be the products on which it would make money, at this stage, for free?

    2. Why did it see fit to claim that software that I know for a fact to be available for download at no charge was being sold for a particular RRP of $X dollars?

    3. Why did it require my credit card details to ship one complimentary disc?

    Ah because it was not just a simple marketing exercise.

    I think a 'criminal mastermind' came up with this ruse for even the name of the company is a string which will give many false hits when searched upon:
    'think all'.

    :|

    However anyone with the presence of mind to search stands a good chance of finding your blog & the truth on this matter.

    No one seems to have mentioned that by claiming a RRP for the applications & charging (an unfair amount, or certainly using unfair practices) to distribute, they must be falling foul of terms stipulated by organisations who make the software.

    They cannot have made prior arrangements to give them permission surely?

    By Anonymous Wez Laka, at 8:28 PM EST  

  • You are correct. They would be in violation of the licenses for which Open Source is being distributed. There is nothing right about what Think All is doing.

    By Blogger Veign, at 8:45 PM EST  

  • Thank-you Veign for saving me hassles which I hate. I clicked around some more and discovered that Yahoo had ThinkAll show up as a sponsor/vendor. I kindly asked them to help assure nobody else links via Yahoo.

    See actual request below to Yahoo

    The following vendor which showed up on todays (3/29/06) yahoo website appears to be shady. I would like your help in assuring nobody else goes to their website because of links on Yahoo.com. Your site is too good to be connected with ThinkAll.com

    You may read about MANY ungoing (sic)issues at:
    http://www.veign.com/blog/2006/01/thinkallcom-think-again.html
    -------

    I respectfully signed it with my full name. Will see if they help.

    Also respectfully,
    Craig (last name suppressed for privacy reasons)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:41 PM EST  

  • Please post a follow-up if you get anywhere. Google is also sponsoring them so may want to email them too.

    Thanx and hopefully you will get an answer...

    By Blogger Veign, at 6:31 PM EST  

  • I also was taken. I was just interested in Open Office (like a person above)and thought this was easier than just downloading. I e-mailed them and did get a prompt reply. I requested my name be removed. The person replied that she had cancelled my subscription and that I did not have to return anything (for the inconvenience). I also received a confirmation of CD's being returned. I re-emailed to confirm and received this

    "You are correct. Nothing to return.

    We take your feedback very seriously. I have personally reviewed and forwarded
    your concerns to our upper management so they can make needed improvements."

    This, I hope, will give me the ability to reverse any further charges should they try and process them.

    Thanks all for the warnings, though too late for me!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:36 PM EST  

  • Great information--unfortunately I was a little too late. I just checked my bank account & have a $49.90 surprise charge from this rip-off company. I called & tried & tried to dispute the charges--all the "robot" on the other end would say was you agreed to the Terms of use. I am outraged! I will be filing any kind of complaint I can against Thinkall for being deceptive. Do not use this company--well unless you want to pay the $50. I know its still cheaper than other programs, but its not cool when your surprised with the charges. Accepting them is one thing, being robbed is another.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:43 PM EST  

  • All the software can be gotten for free from the internet. Check out my alternate download posts for information on this:

    Home and Office Downloads
    Graphics Downloads
    Internet Downloads
    Creative Downloads

    By Blogger Veign, at 2:53 PM EST  

  • ThinkAll Publishing LLC = Deceit. I can't agree more that the company has practices that are founded on misrepresentation.

    Just after submitting my purchase request I felt funny (Ref the book Blink) and I sent them an e-mail requesting that they confirm that my total bill was $2.95. To their credit they did get back quickly will a mealy mouthed expression with I have included.. note that they say "Terms of Use" THE terms of use include a monthly club with auto billing to your credit card. I am not going to comment on the value, that is up to you. The deal is 4 CD's = $2.95 upfront, $50 if you don't return 2. Then you get a monthly delivery with auto charge to your credit card. You decide.

    Here is my inquiry:
    > Could you please let me know the total amount billed to my Credit
    Card?
    Their response to my inquiry :
    > When you place your initial order, we charge you USD $1.95 to cover
    some of the handling cost to process your request which includes labor,
    shipping materials and processing fees. We also authorize a USD $1
    charge at the same time for shipping cost. Only > when your four Software
    CDs actually ship, do we charge you USD $1.00. This comes to the total
    of USD $2.95 S&H to receive all four Software CDs you selected and to
    take advantage of this offer.


    THEY CLAIM THAT IT COST YOU $2.95 to take advantage of the offer to be billed... you decide...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 12:18 PM EST  

  • Think all Publishing says that their software if FREE! Then it says there is a 4.95 charge for shipping. 3 levels down from their home page, in TERMS OF USE is a small box with over 2,000 words. In paragraph 7, in prolix language it says something about a subscription.
    Think all Publishing is a classic bait and switch scam, where FREE! is promised so that they can get your credit card number.
    Do not do business with this company because they will not refund your money!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:25 PM EST  

  • to those who have been victimized by this scam, please post on all blogs and forums you can find bout this fraud. if you can post on one blog/forum a day bout this group, they'll be out of business in no time. payback would be sweet

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:19 PM EST  

  • Actually a more productive thing to do would be to contact either Google or Yahoo and request their ads be pulled.

    By Blogger Veign, at 3:23 PM EST  

  • Thanks for posting all this good information. Alas, I too fell prey to the web site and thought little of it until I had already agreed. How foolish I was and will look into a company better next time. The funny thing is on their very materials sent they give a link to go to if you want to return. Lucky, for me I hit your link as theirs does not work. I called them by phone and sent back the other two cds by priorty mail with confermation. Yes, it cost about 5.00 but should get there in plenty of time. Later that day this is what they sent me, mind everyone that I had already mailed them at this point! Like that information would help me.... Thank you for trying our software!

    This serves as a confirmation that on 04/18/2006 you have cancelled your trial with Think All Publishing.

    Regarding your order # xxx shipped on 04/06/2006:

    Product ID | Product Name
    -------------------------------------------------
    0401 | 600 Greatest Fonts
    0301 | 4500 Greatest Photos
    1501 | GIMP Photo & Image Studio
    0101 | 15000 Greatest ClipArt


    Two of the CDs above in your trial package are FREE and yours to keep and enjoy. The other two trial CDs are just $24.95 each which, as you know, is a tremendous savings (up to 80% OFF the store price) because we sell them directly to you. If, like most of our customers, you want to keep all 4 CDs - do nothing!

    If you do choose to return the two trial CDs, your return confirmation number is 9543494. This return confirmation number must be included on the outside of the package with the returned CDs. If the return number is not included, it may delay us processing the return and may even result in an inadvertent billing for the two trial CDs.

    Return the trial CDs to:

    Think All Publishing LLC
    Returns Department
    Return # 9543494
    P.O. Box 462009
    Garland, TX 75046-2009

    If our Returns Department does not receive the 2 trial CDs within 15 days, you will be billed for these 2 trial CDs.

    We strongly recommend you use USPS Delivery Confirmation or other tracking service for your return so you can track when the package was sent and delivered. Otherwise, we are not responsible for lost or undelivered packages.

    Questions? Please call our friendly Customer Service anytime at one of the phone numbers below.

    Enjoy the software! We thank you again for your business!

    Have a great day,

    Think All Publishing Customer Service
    support@thinkall.com
    1-800-462-8144 (US/Canada)
    0-800-051-7332(UK)
    1-800-635-272(Australia)
    1-902-462-6085 (Global)

    Sorry this is so long but thought this would be very helpful information for those outside the US. Also, turning them in to the BBB is a great idea. Also, the Attorney General in your state may prove to be helpful. Must say the person I spoke with was very kind and professional. Did change some numbers and dates for protection. :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:27 PM EST  

  • I got caught too. I fell for their promotional come-on. Their big print ad says nothing about charging $24.95 each for two of the CDs that they send. When the first 4 CDs arrived, nothing in the package said that 2 of them would cost me $24.95 each. An underhanded and deceptive company.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:20 PM EST  

  • I too was thunderstruck with the kind of offer posted..but on a safer side decided to check out some reviews other than their own! And glad I did...just to save myself the hassles the others have gone through!!

    Lessons Learnt: Never venture into any offers without reading reviews!

    By Anonymous Anitha, at 4:13 PM EST  

  • I have read your comments. My case is worst because I believed this incredible offer and I applied for it. I live in Mallorca -Balears Islands-, Catalonia. In my case it's practically impossible to send back the CDs before ten days.
    Actually I still being so credule... but I have cancelled my VISA

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:47 AM EST  

  • There may be something you can do about this. The Consumer Protection Act statutes in many states will allow for suits against a company that engages in deceptive practices like this, even if the terms were in the contract. (Just because something's in a contract doesn't make it legal, after all; I can't legally contract to have someone killed, however tempting that may be from time to time.)

    My initial thoughts (again, without having researched the statute in depth and compared it to what's happening here, so this is off the cuff and not at all any kind of advice) is that here in Michigan where I practice, this would probably fit the definition of a violation of the consumer protection act, entitling the plaintiff (i.e., the person who got ripped off and sued) to triple damages PLUS reaonable attorney's fees. Most states have similar statutes. It may be worth your time to check it out with an attorney.

    (MANDATORY DISCLAIMER: Yes, I am an attorney. However, this message is not intended to be legal advice; it's just information. Consult an attorney in your jurisdiction with your specific information before you do anything litigious.)

    By Anonymous Steven Shelton, at 8:56 AM EST  

  • Have Think All ever refunded anyone? They emailed a confirmation to that effect but nothing has shown on my Amex account as yet.
    Marios.

    By Anonymous Marios Zakos, at 8:18 PM EST  

  • I'm a victom of this scam and I'm planning to proceed legally. I have contacted my attorney and he is more than happy to deal with this case. We are going to sue this company.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:12 PM EST  

  • If things work in your favor contact me directly and I would love to do a followup blog post...

    By Blogger Veign, at 7:33 PM EST  

  • It's been a while since I had time to work on this. A LOT more people have been stung. A couple things: check out the links in an earlier message ("When I get mad, I get information") to the consumer protection laws of the state of Texas, Thinkall's governing jurisdiction, and complaint options through the Texas AG, the applicable BBB, the FTC, and a federal site for international complaints. (Mea culpa, I haven't done so, YET.) Those might help.
    For the apologists (customers? Ha!), get real. If you read the FTC guidelines at http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/products/trialoffers.pdf, page 2, the mandatory information is NOT "clearly and prominently" displayed as required. Neither is it customary to bury the specifics of a retail transaction in the terms of use, but rather to provide a link to relevant contractual information immediately adjacent to the point where you must confirm the transaction. Rather, their initial come-on is carefully worded in such a way that you think you HAVE read the terms, when you haven't. There is no reference to cost or subscription in your order confirmation email or on the invoice with the cds, and while there's a breezy keep-or-return statement on the packaging, it doesn't state the price or subscription nature of the offer. Their customer service reps are trained to keep robotically repeating that you were negligent, it's not their fault (paraphrasing) that you're stupid, and that the company has a rock-solid, no-exceptions, no-refund policy. They may not even send you the software you select: at the time of my initial order, their computers changed my order AFTER I hit the submit button, so I had to accept several shipments if I wanted the software I had actually ordered, despite an immediate email request asking them to change the order. They said they had done so, then sent me the same useless software.
    The cancellation or return procedures must be followed to the letter or they can keep charging your credit card until you do so. It's not easy to cancel your bank card to stop this kind of underhanded dealing: I'm still picking up the pieces from having to do so. And paying the overdraft charges that piled up when funds were removed from my account without my knowledge.
    In short, they are blatantly, and consciously, deceptive.

    By Anonymous Helen, at 8:34 PM EST  

  • Everything you said is what I think 1000's of people are going through. I read somewhere that ThinkAll shipped over 100,000 CD's last year. Just think of all the people they ripped off.

    People: Contact Google, Yahoo, the FTC, BBB and get this company to change or stop their deceptive ways.

    By Blogger Veign, at 9:41 PM EST  

  • Thanks for posting. I did think "too good to be true" and did a Google search for "about thinkall" and found your blog entry. May I suggest CHARGEBACK claim with your credit card company for nonreceipt of merchandise. If they get enough chargebacks they may have to scramble for another merchant account unless they are offshore. Just some thoughts.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:27 PM EST  

  • I wish that I had known how to find your helpful information about this company. I am very knew to the internet and fell for the offer.I am not able to afford the prices they are charging according to the comments I have been reading on your site. I live in Australia, so will try the Aus. customer service number.I hope I have some luck cancelling, as I don't even think that they are worth buying and had trouble installing the programs, but I am knew to both computer and internet.Thank you for your information.

    By Anonymous Val Lawrance, at 2:16 AM EST  

  • I too have fallen for this. Thanks for posting this here, as it has made it alot easier to deal with. I have asked for the cancellation and am waiting to hear. I shall be complaining also to the people you have mentioned because I can't believe they are getting away with this

    By Anonymous caroline brailsford, at 1:23 PM EST  

  • What so many of you did not notice is that Think All worded the bait, "Free,Free, and you pay only shipping".....and the switch is overtly illegal because they ask "do you agree with the terms of the Offer?"....well sure.
    The switch is on the bottom, you have to scroll down and it says in small print "terms of use" with the switch hidden deep therein.
    "Terms of offer" and "terms of use" are not the same thing. Not just a "bait and switch", more like a bait, pea shell game and switch. Busted

    By Blogger Dave, at 8:33 PM EST  

  • On their website I saw that they actualy had many open source program on their CD's, like Blender, Audacity, Gimp and others. This software is free for download anyways. If you distribute it, you have to include the source code though.

    A question to those people who got some cd's from think all: Did they include the source code to those programs? If not, they actualy might be violating the licenses of the software they offer.

    Cheers

    By Blogger Lars, at 7:20 AM EST  

  • If some one wants to drop by their little office the real addresss(not P.O.)is Think All Publishing LLC, 5700 Granite Pkwy #200, Plano, Tx 75024

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:49 AM EST  

  • I got stuck by them as well. I received the software, which I was not impressed by at all, and also a $54.02 charge a month later. I've disputed the charge on my credit card as it is not very apparent what you are signing up for when you order their "free CDs"

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:49 PM EST  

  • Well I've fallen for this here in UK and can now only report them on as many sites as possible. When I mailed them I got a very polite explanation of just how the scam works, which I already knew. It would seem the "two are free and you pay for the other two" is to get round the fact they are illegally selling for profit the open source material?

    By Anonymous Ash, at 2:56 AM EST  

  • I almost fell for this deceptive offer. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for them I had used a Visa giftcard when I placed my order. The giftcard only had a few dollars remaining, enough to cover the initial shipping for the CD I wanted plus the 3 "BONUS" CDs. I guess this puts me in the drivers seat. I intend to keep the first 4 CDs and not accept any future mailings. It makes me happy to "stick it" to unethical and deceptive businesses.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:41 AM EST  

  • I fell for thinkalls sales scam, but I may have the last laugh. Fortunately for me I used a Visa giftcard, which only has a few dollars remaining, to cover the shipping charges. If thinkall attempts to charge anything additional they'll see that the card has a 0 balance. I think I'll simply keep the first set of CDs delivered and any that may come in the future. I doubt they'll do anything about it because they are well aware that what their doing is illegal.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:40 AM EST  

  • I got scammed by Thinkall as well. As soon as I realized what happened I took steps to cancel my "subscription". I then contacted my credit card company to dispute the $49.90 charge. They advised me to send 2 CDs back to Thinkall...I sent back all four (With a delivery confirmation receipt). I sent a letter with the CDs complaining of their practices and informing them that I have contacted my credit card company to dispute the transaction. I then got an e-mail asking me to call one of their friendly customer service representatives to arrange for reshipment of the CDs since I authorized them and my credit card had already been "conveniently" charged. ( oh...and they were nice enough to say they would not charge for the reshipping ) UNBELIEVABLE! After my reply to the latest joke of an e-mail, I finally got an e-mail saying they would refund the money in 2-3 days...We'll see what happens but in any case I'm sure that's all my credit card company will need to see if their promise to refund is yet another trick!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 5:57 AM EST  

  • Well, I also got scammed by this company, but I fought them all the way and finally got my money back. They waited until my SS check was deposited and then grabbed the money 3 weeks after the cd's was to be returned. After 3 e-mails they finally told me to mail back the 2 cd's and make sure there was a tracking number. Well I sent them by UPS which is one of the best companies I know. Guess what they gave me a PO Box and I did not know that UPS did not deliever to PO Boxes. My package arrived in Texas and they could not deliver it so I called Think All customer service and ask for an address. They said they did not have an address and I had to wait for it to be returned and then send it again. I already paid $10. to have them shipped by UPS and was not going to put out any more money. I called the Attorney General office and got the Corporate address and redirected my package to that address. The same day my package was to be delivered I got an e-mail stated that they had issued me a credit for $49.90 and the next day it was in the bank. I was luckier than most people and I am thank ful for just loosing the $10. It is a lesson well learned and I will never get products from the internet again. I hope everyone could get there money back, but all I can say is keep after them. I did and it paid off. I am going to let the Attorney General of Texas know what they are doing and everyone else should too.

    By Blogger meme, at 11:52 AM EST  

  • Here is a summary of Think All's deception. You can paste this into the FTC's complaint website: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

    Start Complaint:
    Think All Publishing, LLC says that their software if FREE!
    www.thinkall.com
    Then it says there is a minimal charge for shipping. 3 levels down from their home page, in TERMS OF USE is a small box with over 2,000 words. In paragraph 7, in it says something about a subscription. And then when the CD's arrive, there is a small label warning you that unless you send back 2 of the CD's in 10 days you will be charged ~= $50. Most people including me, don't see that warning.
    This website chronicles other people's negative experience with this company: http://www.veign.com/blog/2006/01/thinkallcom-think-again.html
    End Complaint

    Address:
    5700 Granite Pkwy #200
    Plano, Tx 75024

    Phone Number: (800) 462-8144

    Ps. I borrowed most of the text from other's posts.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:34 PM EST  

  • Most of the software they offer is open source. That means you can download it for free anyway. As an example, openoffice.org.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:29 AM EST  

  • I also got taken in by thinkall. well I am sure they will get more like me. They need to be stopped & made to pay for mental harassment they cause. I am trying to return the cds but ups will not accept POBOX signed fro delivery for a POBOX. could some one polease let mr know te coporate office address, so that I can mail it to them at taht address. Otherwise I will get stung by them,

    By Blogger essbeee, at 2:50 PM EST  

  • Unfortunately i to got scammed , I did'nt read beyond small print, And now i'm paying for it .. Here is the address that was sent to me po box 462009 Garland TX 75046-2009 USA here is the return # that i got once i phone to cancell my membership 9711661, Has anyone be successful in returning there cd's and cancelling there membership .. If so could u please let me know .. Cause i'm working on sending mine back now ..
    Thanks Crystal

    By Blogger crystal, at 3:27 PM EST  

  • All of you people who feel you were scammed need to complain to the Fereral Trade Commission, Consumer Complaints Bureau AND call the bank that issued your credit card and contest the recurring charges and state that you want them reversed because 1) you felt that you were defrauded AND 2) they (think all) will not accept your attempt to return the CD's. If your bank refuses to reverse the charges, you can file a complaint with the Federal Trade commission and the Comptoller of the Currency against the Bank for violating your write to be protected from fraudulent credit card charges.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:42 AM EST  

  • Exactly!

    The more complaints the more chance of this company being shut-down.

    By Blogger Veign, at 10:12 AM EST  

  • Follow-up

    Make your complaint know to the Texas Attorney General. File a complaint here:
    http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/consumer.shtml#ifyou

    Company name: Think All Publishing LLC of Garland, Texas - Dallas CountyFollow-up

    M

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:51 PM EST  

  • Yes, this is the biggest scam of expensive fine print behind the "free" I have ever seen. I have returned their "free" CDs but was charged $49.99 numerous times! They say they have a no-refund policy (for anyone successfully defrauded). The rep said she did not know of ANY management person I could talk to, nor did she know of any contact number other than the complaint line she answers. She also said she did not know who signed her paycheck. Honest and forthcoming? Not in any way. I will file a BBB complaint and am contacting the Atty. General's office in Texas. Spread the word far and wide.

    By Anonymous Joan, at 12:43 AM EST  

  • Wow, they just got to me too. I hate this, it is the reason people are afraid to purchase on the internet. I am filing a formal complaint.
    jim

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:57 PM EST  

  • to all of you thinking about getting cd's from this company,DON'T, they are not honest when they send tham to you, they charge just shipping and handling and you think thats all you have to pay,you have ten days to cancel,that is nothing,i returned all my cd's they are not some body you want to buy from,when i tryed to cancel my cd's i could not get into the web site to do so,it kept telling me there was no url sight as such,after about 10 trys i got threw.don't do it.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:30 PM EST  

  • I have also been stung by this company. I sent them a stinker of an email and finally i got the website to cancel my subsciption. So here it is folks
    http://www.thinkall.com/freeCD.html
    Hope this is of help to people who also have been stung by the false advertising that they use.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:19 AM EST  

  • I got scammed by this company ThinkAll. It is a complete sham. They are reselling software that is free anyway and doing it very insidiously. Somebody at Thinkall should go to prison

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:51 PM EST  

  • Please be advised the Think All Publishing is running an intentionally deceptive website at mozzila.com. I discovered this accidentall(and got screwed)when I(a 65y/o, disabled computer novice)accidentally misspelled mozilla.com, to obtain a downloadable copy of thunderbird free E-Mail program, recommended by my brother-in-law who helped me acquire this computer. I have filed complaints with the FTC, the TXAG, and the FCC for running a deceptive website(I suspect offering CD's 0f pirated Mozilla software) I thought I was on the Mozilla website from it's virtually identical appearance.

    By Blogger riverbankradio, at 6:17 PM EST  

  • They are selling mostly freeware or even worse, open source programs. Now that is a crime.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:53 AM EST  

  • THANK YOU FOR THE WARNING AND I WILL BE SURE TO REFUSE THE ENTIRE OFFER ASAP! SOUNDS LIKE A SHALL I SAY, SCAM!!!(?)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:43 PM EST  

  • I wonder if the loophole in our favor is the 10 day trial. Their agreement never specifies 10 calendar days, and because they use the us postal system it is reasonable to assume 10 days is business days or mailing days. Most of us who fell for it probably cancelled within 10 business days. If my logic is correct this becomes mail fraud for thinkall.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:25 AM EST  

  • I just got scammed by them to . NOoooooooo. I can believe it.
    If they don't respond to my refund request I'm sending my HAcker friend spend some time on them. I'll see how they handle my file!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:30 PM EST  

  • Thanx.
    Saved my butt.

    By Anonymous Nate, at 7:13 PM EST  

  • I too smelt a rat, so did a search before I got caught.

    BTW, a free video editing program (which I was looking for) is Virtual Edit and is found at http://www.virtualedit.net/home.htm

    Veign, could you add this link to your list at http://www.veign.com/blog/2006/02/thinkallcom-creative-download.html

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:00 PM EST